tv The Ed Show MSNBC December 18, 2012 12:00am-1:00am PST
tonight. folks, thanks for watching. almost 24 hours ago, president obama called for a change in this country. now, it's up to all of us to make sure changes come to pass. the community of newtown connecticut is still deeply mourning the lives of 26 people, 20 of them children. the president struck an almost impossible balance of heartfelt emotion and out rage. clearly, president obama feels the weight of the moment. no american can relive the horror of this. >> we can't tolerate this anymore. these tragedies must end. and to end them, we must change. we will be told that the causes of such violence are complex and that is true. no single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless
direction of a country and moves lawmakers to unity. diane feinstein was the first to announce an update on an assault weapons ban which she introduced in congress and will introduce it early next year. >> i intend to introduce a bill. and i intend one way or another, no matter how long it takes, to get that bill through. there's one thing i'm sure of. that in the absence of doing something, that is sound, that is practical, that is workable, these incidents are not going to stop. i've watched them now since the texas bell tower in 1967. >> feinstein was author of the weapons ban which was allowed to expire under george w. bush. it would include semi-automatic rifles, handguns and shotguns. it bans devices capable of carrying more than ten rounds of ammunition. it also exempts more than 900 specific weapons. it's not a ban on all guns. it's a ban on unnecessary guns. today, senator frank loutenburg of new jersey also introduced a plan to ban the sale of high-capacity magazines. senator palin the senate judiciary committee says he will hold hearings on gun safety issues early next year. democratic lawmakers were holding action. the mayor of chicago where an insidious 5,000 people have been killed by gun violence since 2001. he spoke about turning on the pressure fo and say we women comm l do your job have an assault weapon ban. >> it's time we, a have an an assault weapon ban. and i would hope that the leadership in congress would now have a vote of conscious. >> members of f som things need to change. s received fro associatio democra he said every idea should be on the table. senator warner told the washington post there's got to be a way to put reasonable ideas
west virginia senate race. manchin filled a campaign ad where he filed a bullet through the copy of the cap and trade bill. now manchin is open to the senator's bill. >> i believe it's time for all of us to sit down and look at the bill. if diane is saying basically assault weapons, i don't know anyone in the sporting or
hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. i don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. >> okay, it's encouraging to see so many lawmakers speaking forcely about the need for change. but it's frustrating to know that we've been down this road that's called the gun show loop. well, the nra sells people on buying these weapons and then use this fear to convince them that their freedom is going to be taken away from them. i want the nra to tell the families of newtown, connecticut, how much fun this bushmaster rifle is. i want to ask leaders how fun this has been for the country. some people call this the tipping point. the tip of the spear is you. lawmakers need to cower in fear
of voters. we need real change in this country. we need to get on the phone as americans with every elected official who has opposed an assault weapons ban and say, you will not get my vote. as the president said, we can no longer sit back and do nothing. >> are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage? that the politics are too hard? are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is
somehow the price of our freedom? >> we are the people. we are the constitution. we can shake this country whatever image we want. the change and the time is now coming close together. the time for change is right now. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will you support any politician who doesn't support reasonable gun laws? text a for yes and b for know to 622639. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me now is michael eric dyson. doctor, good to have you here with us tonight. >> thank you, sir. >> i'm going to be harsh on lawmakers. their number one goal is to get re-elected but is this moment in time when they might forget re-election and do what is really right because this is what the country wants? >> i hope so and pray for it, ed. finally people who have been ardent supporters and advocates for the second amendment get some commonsense.
you don't need strips, drips, and drums of that high capacity to go out and hunt. there's no justification on earth for us to be able to retain this kind of assault weaponry in defense of our second amendment right and ostensibly for the purposes of hunting. you've put on the table some conservative republicans and some democrats that have been receiving great grades from the nra have are come to their senses. the nra must not be allowed to be a shadow government. we've allowed them to be able to gain our connections as citizens who are card-carrying defenders
of the constitution and second amendment. no more. the death of those children in newtown, the death of children in chicago, detroit, philadelphia, new york, the death of children across this country is enough to say to us, we must end all of this madness. come to the table and i think politicians finally get that. >> can the nra, can the influence of this organization, which has intimidated lawmakers for years, thrown money at people that they don't want to see in the congress because they
want to protect all this fearmongering that they do, can they finally be defeated by this public outrage? i think that's where we are at right now. good thing there's not an election tomorrow because the nra would be in trouble. it's the fearmongering and can the public finally overcome that? >> i think so. and let's not underestimate them. we know that the nra is laying in the cut. they now know to come forward. feelings are tender. they know that people are outraged and fed up with all of this madness and baloney. so they are going to lay in the cut waiting to re-emerge to say, look, all of us lament and mourn but let's not go too far in the other direct. they will put forth arguments, if the teachers are better armed, we know violence against violence and when you have the presence of guns like that it
this kind of stuff. if you want to put cops in the schools, that's a totally different i. scenario. but to call on an administrator or a teacher to be armed is absolutely outrageous. great to have you with us tonight. share your thoughts with us on twitter at "ed show" and facebook. coming up, mayor michael bloomberg, his organization, mark glaze about bloomberg's call to action on gun control. later, i'm getting a lot of reaction from my commentary on friday night about gun activists hiding behind the second amendment. i'll respond to my detractors tonight. stay with us. we'll be right back. new prilosec otc wildberry
is the same frequent heartburn treatment as prilosec otc. now with a fancy coating that gives you a burst of wildberry flavor. now why make a flavored heartburn pill? because this is america. and we don't just make things you want, we make things you didn't even know you wanted. like a spoon fork. spray cheese. and jeans made out of sweatpants. so grab yourself some new prilosec otc wildberry. [ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. satisfaction guaranteed or your money back.
and over the weekend, bloomberg challenged the notion that pushing for tougher laws is impossible, giving the influence of the nra. >> but, today, the nra's power is so vastly overrated. the public, when you do the polls, they want to stop this carnage. >> today, the mayor echoed those sediments calling out elected officials on both sides. >> this is not a partisan issue. this is just a bunch of people who i think are cowed by the nra. and as i said yesterday, if you think the nra has power, just remember, the number one priority was to defeat barack obama. last time i checked, he's going to be inaugurated again. >> earlier protesters gathered outside the offices in washington. the nra, again, declined to comment. the group's social media interaction has come to a halt. the nra had stopped tweeting. and it also took down its facebook page on friday, just one day after it celebrated a milestone of 1.7 million likes.
the five republicans who voted aye are all gone and al gore's tie breaking aye became a focus of the nra's campaign against him. and just somedays before the slaughter at sandy hook elementary, the nra was actively fear mongering over gun laws. an nra spokesman told the washington examiner on december 5th that the organization was preparing to battle with the president. we're not optimistic. we're planning for the worst. we've told people to plan for gun bans and a supreme court stacked with anti-gun judges. the president has a variety of options and a disposal we don't take any of them for granted. let's turn to mark glaze. he's director of mayors against illegal guns. >> is this a history-making moment with firearms in this
country. >> it absolutely is. to me, it feels like us who are at the oklahoma city bombing. where things have gotten so bad that you had this explosively terrible moment that people just reevaluated. today, we had celebrities, tech leaders, thousands of new supporters come across. that doesn't happen every day and it doesn't happen at every mass shooting. >> it sounds like there's a coalition coming together. elected officials ground but says that there are people who disagree with that. >> if you sit down and did an analysis, what they do is overwhelmingly endorse incumbents who are going to win anyway. they spread a lot of money very thin across few people. and people on our side don't really get involved in politics. as a result, that i had're the only game in town. but just look at this last election. the nra only put more than a hundred thousand dollars in the seven senate races, six of them lost. >> in rural america, for instance, in the wisconsin recall that we'll talk about later, they depicted scott walker as a guy who was going to grab all guns.
it has an effect on rural americans, don't you think? >> i think that gun issues is one of the things that people use to pay democrats in particular as being too liberal. but it's just one of a lot of things. tom barrett, who ran in that race who happens to be a member of our coalition was not talking about guns in that race. that's not the reason he lost. there are other reasons he lost, we regret. we have 750 mayors in this coalition who understand if you do the right thing, the politics will take care of themselves. they run and they win. >> what do they hope to achieve? and what kind of gun legislation do the mayors want? >> there are three big fixes that you can make. first thing is -- few people know this, only 60%, maybe even fewer, get a background check. >> that's because of the gun show. 40% of the sales are at gun shows. >> now it's even broader.
it used to be the gun show,but that was really before the internet. and now a huge and growing share of the private sales that take place in this country are online where there is no background check, no record of the transaction and no questions asked. so you should require a background check for all gun sales. second thing you should do is take a very serious look at whether we can craft an assault weapons ban and a limit on high-can passty magazines that cause enormous amounts of mayhem. you should find a way to do that seriously. third thing is, believe it or not, there is no federal statute that makes gun trafficking a crime. and if i go in straw by a gun, sell it to a mexican drug cartel, the penalties for that
are the same as trafficking chickens. >> so all of the mayors are on board with these three things? >> we had a conference call with our mayors tonight which we don't do every week because we're busy people. we've had hundreds of mayors from across the country join us. we've had the mayors of tucson of munci indiana, mayors in ohio call to join us because they hear about what we're doing. they've had enough. whether we're republican or democrat, they understand the politics are right.
welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. whether we want to believe it or not, there is a divide between urban unrule in this country. gun control is still the biggest sticking point, i think. and if you think about it, it's possible for a democrat to be elected in the united states senate in a swing state. even if he or she supports some tax increases, is pro-choice, and is for marriage equality. but it's a different story on guns. democrats are far more vulnerable on this issue, and the nra knows it. in the wisconsin recall election, here's what the nra did to mayor tom barrett. >> this is your freedom. this is your freedom tom barrett gets your chance to recall the gun rights.
>> freedom is the buzz word. nra was more than $17 million, according to our next guest, john nichols, about 6% was spent in support of americans. $11 million was spent against democrats. i'm joined tonight by john nichols. john, i don't want to overstate this. do you think that there is a divide in this country between urban and rural when it comes to the gun culture? >> this divide and how it's talk about and there's a divide in how it's thought about it. . it's not one that can't be left, but it's one that president obama and supporters of gun control have to understand. and they have to take lessons from some of the political figures who have figured out how to leap over it. it's not that hard.
what you do have to understand is that people in rural america and grew up around guns. i did. i come from a very small town. my grandfather was a gun collector. he and i made shells in the basement. we went skeet shooting together. so the bottom line is i grew up in a culture where i saw guns respected, enjoyed, treated well. and i think the key thing is that a lot of the political players who favor gun control, sometimes act as if rural folks aren't rational about this. don't really understand where they're at. that's not the way to come at it. the way to come at it is the way that bernie sanders and some others have. >> well, the technology and the manufacturing and what these guns can do now in society is far different from 20 years ago. we're living in almost a different set of rules, yet there's that second amendment sitting right there that they cling onto and they won't move, which makes it politically dangerous to come up with any kind of gun legislation. where is this all going? >> well, the thing is that there has to be a message to rural the right a talk hero i thi were out to ca val wouldn't h would have been prayer in the schools? sa h out of the schools oldn't be taken seriously in any public school. >> i'm just surprised that john mccain and lindsey graham can be so out raged about the l the person president obama has made a counter offer to speaker john boehner. details next. stay with us.
and 06 of course, we love hearing from our vi in the af jo taking away all guns. but that's not what i'm saying. i would just think that the founding fathers could have foreseen automatic weapons se second amendm and we are back. president obama has made a counter offer to house speaker john boehner to fiscal negotiations. $400,000 as the new dividing line on taxes, meaning tax rates would return to clinton-era rates for those making $400,000 >> well, the thing is, there has to be a message to rural folks and gun owners across the country. look, we understand that you may be a hunter, a gun collector, you may have just grown up in a family where guns are are always a part of your life. you can continue to do that, the second amendment will protect you on that but you need to separate yourself from these maniacs who are running around with automatic weapons and walking into theaters and into schools. you need to have a certain self-respect and say, look, my gun rights, my gun engagement, if you will, is completely different from these maniacs. and as a result, we need to say to these folks, you can be on the side of sensible gun control
and still not only protect your guns but also protect the culture that you regard highly. it's doable. bernie sanders has done it. you can be a progressive and speak to these communities but you have to speak to them with are respect. >> what does it say when a senator like joe manchin of west virginia comes out and takes a stand for an assault weapons ban in a state that traditionally is very protective of firearms? >> it's monumental. west virginia is the state which really was the symbol of al gore's troubles in 2000 on the gun rights issue. and remember that joe manchin when he was running for this u.s. senate seat cut an ad in which he was shooting at a target. >> yeah. >> and so the bottom line is that him taking this stand is good evidence of just how much this issue has gun to shift and the potential that president obama has to talk about it to rural americans. >> john nichols, washington correspondent of "the nation," great to have you. a lot more is coming up in the next half hour on "the ed show." stay with us.
>> the principal lunging to protect kid. i wish she had an m-4 in her office so that when she heard gunfire she could pull it out. >> the righties double down. alex wagner and jonathan alter. what role does this country's mental health need to play to curb the violence? dr. gail saltz is here with answers. and if the club for growth is john boehner, you know it's good news for democrats. the latest on the fiscal cliff negotiations is ahead.
schools. look no further than your sunday talk shows. >> i'm not so sure -- and i'm sure i'll get nailed from this -- i'm not so sure i wouldn't want one person in a school armed and ready for this type of thing. the principal lunged at this guy, the school psychologist lunged at this guy. my god, if you can prevent this kind of thing, i think we ought to do that. >> congressman louie gohmert took it a step forward. he said that the principal should have had an m-4 assault rifle. >> in hearing the story of the principal trying to protect, chris, i wish she would have had an m-4 in her office and she takes him out, takes his head off before he could kill those precious kids. >> just what kids are trained to do, don't you think? he's known for his absurd statements but this one is shameless. the fact is, armed civilians do not stop mass shootings from happening. "mother jones" studied this and they did not find a single instant. republicans hide behind the second amendment to stop gun control and the american people, i think, are stick of it. let's turn to alex wagner host of "now" and jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and
columnist for "bloomberg view." alec, we always hear this coming out from the right supplied by the nra. is this time different? >> i think it's different this time and an acknowledgement that this is a line in the sand. the argument of the teacher theory or proposal is a new level of ridiculousness? can you imagine after the terrorists who had the explosives in his shoes, if he had said, every airline passenger should have shoe -- explosive shoes so we can combat it like that, it's a ludicrous proposition. i was speaking with john larson, a congressman from connecticut. he said if that's what louie gohmert thinks flies in texas, that's there's acknowledgement that there needs to be change but there's so much resistance, so much entrenched resistance to the notion of reasonable laws around guns and gun possession that you're seeing an initial grasping of straws, anything but laws that are going to make it less easy for people to get weapons. >> jonathan, the fact that children were involved in this, has that disarmed advocates that were out to make sure pro these folks a you know, louie go the peop murdere to kil couple of children.
imagine if you had people fi it' i don't think that they ultim t natio i think it' quote/ it's too threatening to people who are gun owners and rep all of us to trai say o safety. commonsense gun safety. who can be agains if we will include a lot of organizing by then progr but it's a long-time process. and so as a first step, i would suggest retiring gun control and replacing it with every reference and for all of us to train ourselves to say over and over again in a disciplined way, we are talking about common sense gun safety. common sense gun safety. who can be against that? if we start to redefine the terms and build a movement, that will include a lot of local organizing by the same people who reelected barack obama and then this can start to make progress in a legislative way. >> some over the conservative side have played the religious card. here's mike huckabee blaming the shooting on a lack of god in schools. >> we asked why there's violence in schools, but we've systematically removed god from our schools. should we be so surprised that schools have become a place of carnage? we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what
responsibility means, acountability. that we're not just going to have to be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before holy god and judgment. >> i would really like to see someone employ judaeo christian values. and i think this goes to -- you talked about this earlier in the show, ed, the notion of a cultural difference. and guns represent not just guns, but a whole way of life, i think, for a certain part of the country. and to some degree, the fear is understandable. there's a sense it's slipping away from them. but to not actually examine the real problem, it's not just about mental health, values and video games. it's about the weapons. and to sort of -- to excise that from the conversation, is not only irresponsible, but it's not a way of -- there's no way for the nation to heel unless you really look at this holistically.
>> we just have to call out mike huckabee on this. this is really shameful. he's saying that those children wouldn't have died if there would have been prayer in the schools? and that the gunman had gone to the school with prayer? is that what he's saying? >> that's exactly what he's saying. he's saying if we had taken god out of the schools and it has affected society so much that now we have people who go around and shoot up schools. >> so how does he explain people going around shooting up churches? >> they will expand the boundaries of conversation to fit themselves. >> well, at a certain point, you know, not everybody can be taken seriously as, you know, there are gun advocates who deserve to be heard in this debate. but if somebody says something as obama scene as that, they how oldn't be taken seriously in any public school. >> i'm just surprised that john mccain and lindsey graham can be so out raged about the loss of public life, which is terrible,
and, yet, they're very, very quiet on this. >> keep in mind, john mccain was the person who nominated sarah palin, and she's the one that coined the phrase, don't retreat, reload. >> thank you. breaking news in the fiscal cliff negotiations. president obama has made a counter offer to speaker john boehner. details next. stay with us.
founding fathers could have foreseen automatic weapons coming down the pike. i doubt it. i don't think they were thinking about that when they wrote the second amendment. people change, times change. this is time for change and nobody's going to be grabbing your gun lobby. but we might want to make sure that you're not mentally ill before you get it. raptorsrule updates this antiquated amendment a.s.a.p. and shannon chaved says why can all of our constitutional rights be subjected to limits except for the ones conferred by the second amendment. we like that one, too. keep your thoughts coming on our facebook and twitter page. tonight, our survey, i asked you will you support any politician who doesn't support reasonable gun laws? 8% of you said yes. 92% of you said no.
and we are back. president obama has made a counter offer to house speaker john boehner to fiscal negotiations. president obama has now proposed $400,000 as the new dividing line on taxes, meaning tax rates would return to clinton-era rates for those making $400,000 a year. >> speaker boehner had proposed $1 million a year as the dividing line. the president asked for a total of $1.2 trillion of new tax revenue in his counter offer in exchange for $1.2 trillion in spending cuts.
according to reuters, the president has changed the way the cost of living adjustments are made. the president wants the debt limit extended for two years with periodic votes through a process proposed by senator mitch mcconnell. speaker boehner met with the president at the white house again this morning and had previously offered a one-year extension to the debt limit in return for 1 trillion dollars in budget cuts. >> the offer was reportedly rejected in the white house. the senate will likely come back in the session the day after christmas. on another sad note, hawaii senator dan anhoy, a war hero and the longest-serving member of the senate. he had represented his state as a congressman on senator since hawaii joined the union in 1959. president obama said tonight, tonight, our country has lost a true american hero.
according to the senator's staff, his last word was aloha. coming up, in the aftermath of yet another tragedy, the mental health community needs to assess if it's doing everything it can to stop gun violence. or are they being asked to engage? psychiatrist gail saltz joins me for the discussion next. stay with us.
welcome back to "the ed show" as the president has talked about, there are a lot of facets that go into gun violence in this country. the mental health community is going to have to play a major role if we're going to make changes and see violence go down in this country. making sure they don't have access to firearmings is a big deal. let's go to dr. gail saltz, a clinical psychiatrist. dr. saltz, thanks for being here tonight. >> my pleasure. >> this is something that the mental health community is going to need resources to do. if we're going to lean on the mental health community to be a part of gun control and gun violence in this country, take us down that road. what has to happen? >> well, really, i think the issue here is that some people, who will commit terribly violent crimes do suffer from mental illness.
but they're not necessarily entering the system. so there's one out of 17 people in this country who has a serious mental illness. less than a third of them come in for treatment. so that's a lot of people who ostensibly aren't allowed to purchase guns. but because they're never entered the system, there's no record of them. and therefore, they can. and that could be a risk. >> so in the mental health community, is this something that there could be a data base? >> absolutely. well, let me first say. many people who commit these crimes are not necessarily mentally ill. so will it solve the problem overall if we just ran around, you know, bring everybody into the system and diagnose it? no. however, would it cut down, potentially, on these violent crimes? i think it might.
more over, a lot of people who really need treatment would get treatment. so there's no downside to the need to bring the mental health care in this country up from being at the bottom of the barrel where it is. >> but, in the most recent shootings that we've seen, obviously, the perpetrators have had issues. had they had been in the mental health system, this could have been prevented. >> maybe, we don't know. the reality is that people who seem to be at risk for violent crimes have certain features. paranoia, depression, impulsivity. a history of breaking the law and substance abuse. we don't know if any of these things were involved at all. sometimes we won't be able to get everyone. sometimes it's possible that this person won't have done it anyway. mental health might not have been able to prevent it. however, had you been in the system, it's possible that the professional treating would have said to the mother you know what, he's really ill. you shouldn't have guns around your son. that is very possible. >> someone wants to go in and buy a firearm, there could be a law that they have to go in and get mentally checked out. >> i could see that people will be disturbed and i could see it would be very difficult to pull off. what i think is probably more practical, if you will, is if people understood the signs and symptoms of mental illness, basically any emotional state, and brought them in to get treatment, to enter the system, those that would be dangerous
would be dealt with appropriately. > tha co anybo thing of themselves firi as you can see, the 3d gun failed and busted apart after it fired about six rounds, which makes it yes, a gun, but the technical term for what kind of gun it is is it is a crappy gun because it blew apart. but this kind of thing is not what i think is probably more practical, if you will, is if people understood the signs and symptoms of mental illness, basically any emotional state, and brought them in to get treatment, to enter the system, those that would be dangerous would be dealt with appropriately. those who maybe don't appear dangerous, but shouldn't have a firearm would be told so. and their families would be told so. because, of course, in this case, he didn't buy the guns. his mother did. >> but you also run into the issue of seeing a doctor, having it covered, insurance issues, it's one domino after another. >> and this is the big problem. mental health care in 2012, between the stigma that still exists, between the lack of priority, not only for crisis management of mental health issues, but the idea of prevention is almost nonexistent. so with this combination, people
are syruply not getting the care that they need? >> thank you for coming in tonight. and that is "the ed show." i'm ed shultz. >> thank you for staying with us. we're going to have the latest on the aftermath and the continuing news out of newtown connecticut tonight as well as some other important politics, news that is not related to what happened in newtown. the brand new senator elect is chris murphy. the mayor of newark, new jersey is going to be joining us in just a moment. as is the police chief from oak creek wisconsin where that mass shooting occurred this past august. that is all coming up this hour. but, in order to understand one important element of the response to newtown, in order to try to get a handle on the range of possible outcomes here, as we try to make decisions as a country as to whether we are going to change as a country
because of this massacre and because of the national heartbreak it has caused, to try to get at that very big question, there is a very narrow discussion to be had about a piece of new technology. this is something called a 3d printer. anybody can become a small-scale manufacturer of anything. all you have to do is down load a computer file or create a computer file that has the specifications for the shape of a thing that you would like to build. you do have a limited range of the material that your 3d of, that you have programmed it to make. but you can create a physical, three dimensional object that with something that is the equivalent of a printer. these things cost a few thousand bucks, but it is a relatively straight forward thing. these exists. there are a bunch of different brands